This post is inspired by Gavin and Yvonne Frost but isn\u2019t actually about them. It\u2019s about how Pagans continue to support Pagan leaders and teachers who have written or done highly unethical things. (And by unethical I don\u2019t mean gray area, I\u2019m talking about issues of rape, abuse, and consent.) It\u2019s about how Pagans continue to sweep abuse under the carpet.<\/p>\n
What does support look like? Support is hiring people\u00a0to teach at your event or in your area. Support is hosting teachers\u00a0in your home or at your venue. Support is attending their workshop or buying their book. Support is keeping silent.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n Why is it important to talk about these issues? Largely because there are so many abusive patterns in the Pagan community What I hear over and over is that Pagans want this to stop. To stop it, we have to address it.<\/p>\n And then we have to actually make changes and stop making excuses.\u00a0<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n <\/p>\n My last Pagan Activist article was on the difficulty of whistleblowing<\/a>. <\/strong>I\u2019m not writing this article to say that I myself am perfect. Far from it. I have my own flaws, though my mistakes have made me a better leader because I learn.\u00a0The focus of this post is on accountability. Specifically, how many excuses are made for the reprehensible behavior of Pagan teachers and leaders?<\/p>\n Who Are The Frosts? Text of ritual\u00a04, 2007 edition.<\/a> Whether we\u2019re talking about minor children, or about teenagers under the influence of alcohol, the person cannot give consent. <\/strong>In essence, the chapter outlines\u2013and borderline advocates\u2013child rape in the context of ritual.<\/p>\n I\u2019ll be clear on my stance:\u00a0Anything that suggests the rape of minors is wrong. It goes past negotiating the gray area of different religious traditions.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n Here are articles that cover the Frosts in more depth:<\/p>\n Why Do the Frosts Matter Now?<\/strong> *The primary coordinator for Michigan Pagan Fest is the person who brought the Frosts to Michigan this August. She clarified that\u00a0MPF itself\u00a0was not responsible for bringing the Frosts in. However, I\u2019ve pointed out that the event was publicized on the MPF Facebook group, and posted by the MPF\u00a0Facebook identity, vs.\u00a0by her as an individual. This implied\u00a0that the organization, Michigan Pagan Fest, had given the Frosts event its backing and support.<\/em><\/p>\n I posted on my Facebook \u00a0that I was significantly disappointed to see people still hosting the Frosts. Nearly 300 comments and several private conversations later, I observed\u00a0that the Frost supporters continue to make excuses for the Frosts no matter what evidence\u00a0was presented. (Read this excellent post on cognitive dissonance by Jason Morrow<\/a>.<\/strong>)<\/p>\n Anti-Frost Folks Go Overboard That being said, the Frosts say they haven\u2019t ever done the ritual, and there\u2019s no evidence suggesting they have (ie, no victims).<\/p>\n Arguments Frost Supporters Use \u201cThey wrote that years ago.\u201d<\/strong> The two main excuses they seem to offer are: 1. they only included it as historical reference and 2. their use of the word \u201cchild\u201d meant \u201cnon initiate.\u201d<\/p>\n I think it\u2019s fine to reference historical ritual\/traditions; why pretend our ancestors didn\u2019t marry girls off at 12 or younger? \u00a0If initiations happened as described in the chapter, or as referenced in the novel\u00a0The Red Tent, then reference it that way. What\u2019s posed in their chapter is a living ritual.<\/strong> <\/em>They don\u2019t write it as anthropology or history. They write it\u00a0in a \u201cThis is how it should be done\u201d style.<\/p>\n \u201cChild\u201d meant \u201cNon-initiate\/spiritual child.\u201d That just doesn\u2019t make sense if you read the chapter. The Frosts outline how parents should assist their barely-pubescent children to prepare for sex. They talk about puberty, and doing the ritual in the month after a girl\u2019s first blood (puberty typically happens between ages 10-15).\u00a0They are talking about the children of members of the coven.<\/p>\n \u201cThere are more productive things to worry\u00a0about.\u201d<\/strong> \u201cYou are violating their civil rights.\u201d\u00a0<\/strong> \u201cYou are destroying Wicca.\u201d<\/strong> \u201cShow me a victim.\u201d<\/strong> \u201cI was personally hurt as an adolescent by the Frosts\u2019 writings, and those that follow said writings like scripture.When<\/span> I was 14 years old I wound up in my first coven\u2026in central Indiana\u2026.However, the two leaders, the self appointed high priest and priestess were big fans of a book called the Good Witch\u2019s Bible by authors they referred to as \u201cThe Frosts.\u201d \u2026 When I heard that this 30 year old woman thought it was rational and appropriate for us to be sexual in any way at all, I freaked out! \u2026I didn\u2019t associate with other pagans for\u20264 years.\u201d \u201cIt\u2019s not that bad.\u201d<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t be intolerant of other traditions and the way they practice.\u201d<\/strong> For that matter,\u00a0what if the child is gay, lesbian, asexual, or transgender?<\/p>\n \u201cDon\u2019t throw the baby out with the bathwater.\u201d Marion Zimmer Bradley\u2019s a fantastic author. However, were she alive today I would never invite her to speak at any of my events\u2013despite the strides she made for feminism and female authors\u2013because of the transcripts where she admits to aiding her husband in the sexual abuse of minors. Her fiction works will stand the test of time, I think, but that\u2019s different from me inviting her to be a speaker at an event.<\/strong> <\/em><\/p>\n In fact, in the science fiction and fantasy community, numerous editors and authors have gotten away with sexual harassment for years because nobody had the guts to speak up against them. People now take\u00a0the risk to speak out. It\u2019s not to say that those aren\u2019t great authors\/editors. But if you bring someone in to teach at your event, are you promoting consent culture or rape culture?\u00a0<\/em> \u201cNo one is perfect and without flaws, yet we must all remain accountable\u2026to the consequences of our actions\u2026To remain oblivious or silent is to allow the culture of harm behind sexual abuse within \u2018spiritual context\u2019\u2026.at what point does the harm they do outweigh the good? \u2026[S]omeone who has been raped or abused in the name of spiritual obligation\/initiation\/healing would have a much stronger opinion than someone who has never experienced such harm.\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re trying to rewrite history.\u201d What else is part of our history, or even current world events? Slavery, racism, misogyny, beating your wife, beating transgender people, discriminating against gay, lesbian, and bisexual people, selling children into sex servitude at a temple, child brides, female\/male circumcision.\u00a0Should we continue those practices just because they are traditional?<\/em><\/p>\n \u201cYou\u2019re a prude.\u201d \u201cYou just think initiatory sex is bad.\u201d<\/strong> \u201cAny initiatory sex should be with a \u201cstranger\u201d \u2014 an initiated Witch of the coven [that] the neophyte plans to join. . . . The underlying tradition here is sometimes overlooked. If the Craft means enough to you that you are willing to abide by its tenets then abide by them! If you cannot transcend your cultural brainwashing and accept the assignment to have sex one time with an assigned partner, in accordance with centuries of Craft tradition, the Craft can\u2019t mean that much to you. Here\u2019s the door. Don\u2019t call yourself a Witch.\u201d \u2013 Gavin and Yvonne Frost<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n I\u2019m not suggesting that all initiatory sex or sex magic is bad. I agree that the Pagan community has gotten squeamish about sex, but there are reasons for that. In the name of sexual freedom and sexual intiations,I have heard of so many people who have been damaged, manipulated, and abused by the practice of ritual\u00a0sex\u2013even as adults.\u00a0Jason from the Wild Hunt<\/a><\/strong> details his experience of emotional and sexual abuse at age 18 through being groomed by an abusive HPS.<\/p>\n It\u2019s time to take stock. If we want to use sex in our rituals, we simply have to find a way to do it ethically. For me, ethically\u00a0means enthusiastic consent.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n \u201cThey\u2019ve never done that ritual.\u201d \u201cIt was a different time, different morals.\u201d<\/strong> Video interview of the Frosts<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n Phaedra Bonewits pointed out, \u201c[The Frosts]\u00a0are sincere in their belief that what Gavin was taught was the real deal\u2026.I\u00a0hope it gives some context to their conviction that some things they were taught shouldn\u2019t be changed.\u201d<\/p>\n Watching their video and reading their blog posts, I understand the Frosts\u2019 point of view as, they were handed down this ritual and they believe that it\u2019s an important, potent rite of passage ritual from ancient times that shouldn\u2019t be changed.\u00a0<\/strong><\/em>They talk about wanting an initiation to matter, to not lose those potent, powerful\u00a0initiatory experiences.<\/p>\n But\u2013speaking as an experienced ritualist\u2013there are dozens of ways to give someone a transformative initiatory experience without sexual abuse. The Frosts go on the offensive pretty easily in their blog posts and on the Youtube video. Instead of addressing the question, they talk instead about how Pagans have gotten squeamish about sex.<\/p>\n Sex Education However, there\u2019s a vast gulf between sex education, and pressuring a young girl to penetrate herself, or telling a young boy or girl \u201cYou must have sex with someone from my coven, assigned by my HP\/HPS.\u201d<\/p>\n Consent Culture We have to acknowledge facts. We have\u00a0decades of abusive leaders in Paganism pressuring people for sex, and that includes minors. Also, discussion of these abuses have led to some reframing of the \u201cfree love\u201d part of the Pagan movement and revealing the dark underbelly of how it often became \u201cFree love\u2026and what I mean by that is, have sex with me or I\u2019ll guilt and shame you.\u201d Shaming someone into sex, or into sexual initiation, is not consent.\u00a0<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n Leadership and Teacher Accountability While it\u2019s sometimes used as an excuse, context is<\/strong><\/em> important to this conversation. In the my Facebook conversation thread, Phaedra Bonewits referenced Pagan history and that older generations of Pagans were engaged in more of a socially-transgressive, countercultural movement than modern Pagans may understand, and that sex was part of that. She brought up that \u201cThe unspeakable of one generation is the ordinary of another.\u201d<\/p>\n Phaedra and I usually agree on matters of ethics and leadership, though we disagreed a bit around some of the nuances. I did appreciate the perspective she offered on how Paganism and Wicca have changed over the decades. She agreed to let me quote her for this article.<\/p>\n \u201cIsaac was friends with\u00a0[the Frosts] for\u00a0years\u2013and tried for years to get them to revise those two pages. \u2026.Their flaw is not that they did this ritual, their flaw it is the stubborn refusal to change what they had written. Do I think they were right not to change it? No. I think they should have rewritten it decades ago. Gavin is proud and stubborn, but he\u2019s not a monster. Neither is Yvonne\u2026.Did you think that their seeming lack of remorse might reflect a couple of elderly people trying to save face? That it might be more painful than you think to say they were wrong about a position they held to so tenaciously for so long?\u201d I hear that. What I\u2019d offer is that the Frosts, and any teacher or leader, are accountable to the broader community if they are teaching at public Pagan festivals. They\u2019ve\u00a0failed to address the chapter with anything other than backpedaling. I feel that stubbornness does not excuse this.<\/p>\n I\u2019m not asking for perfect leaders. Gods know I\u2019ve screwed up so I\u2019m no exception. If we want Paganism to have healthy community, we have to start holding our leaders accountable and not just saying, \u201cWell, they\u2019ve done so much other good, their action over here shouldn\u2019t tarnish that.\u201d<\/p>\n What I want to see in the Pagan community are leaders we can trust. Not perfection, but excellence<\/strong><\/em>. We have so many leaders that we \u201cput up\u201d with. We cover up a range of abuses\u2013because there\u2019s nobody else. Or because they\u2019re charismatic.<\/p>\n Festival Organizer Accountability<\/strong> I don\u2019t support events or teachers who don\u2019t support consent culture. And yes\u2013consent culture is difficult to build. It\u2019ll take us a while, and we\u2019ll screw up, but it\u00a0matters. \u00a0Making excuses just continues the culture of harassment, shaming, and rape culture.<\/p>\n Going Forward<\/strong> How do we build healthy community?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" This post is inspired by Gavin and Yvonne Frost but isn\u2019t actually about them. It\u2019s about how Pagans continue to support Pagan leaders and teachers who have written or done highly unethical things. (And by unethical I don\u2019t mean gray area, I\u2019m talking about issues of rape, abuse, and consent.) It\u2019s about how Pagans continue to sweep abuse under the carpet. What does support look like? Support is hiring people\u00a0to teach at your event or in your area. Support is hosting teachers\u00a0in your home or at your venue. Support is attending their workshop or buying their book. Support is keeping silent. Why is it important to talk about these issues? Largely because there are so many abusive patterns in the Pagan community What I hear over and over is that Pagans want this to stop. To stop it, we have to address it. And then we have to actually make changes and stop making excuses.\u00a0 My last Pagan Activist article was on the difficulty of whistleblowing. I\u2019m not writing this article to say that I myself am perfect. Far from it. I have my own flaws, though my mistakes have made me a better leader because I learn.\u00a0The focus of this post is on accountability. Specifically, how many excuses are made for the reprehensible behavior of Pagan teachers and leaders? Who Are The Frosts? Gavin and Yvonne Frost make an excellent case study on the\u00a0issue of accountability\u00a0. Back in the 1970\u2019s, they published The Witches Bible,\u00a0later published as The Good Witches Bible. The original version and subsequent versions contains several paragraphs in Chapter 4 which detail a sexual initiation ritual that parents should engage their barely-pubescent children in. A later\u00a0edition clarified that none of the rituals described in the book should be done by anyone under 18, yet the text remained using the word \u201cchild\u201d and\u00a0describing\u00a0physical sexual characteristics of puberty (girls were supposed to have sex with a man who was part of the coven, one month after their period started).\u00a0The chapter describes\u00a0how girls should given one month to prepare for sex with a wooden phallus. To prepare for the ritual, boys and girls are to fast for three days and then be given alcohol. Text of ritual\u00a04, 2007 edition. *Note: There\u2019s a new edition\u00a0of the book, and I have not read the edited chapter. Whether we\u2019re talking about minor children, or about teenagers under the influence of alcohol, the person cannot give consent. In essence, the chapter outlines\u2013and borderline advocates\u2013child rape in the context of ritual. I\u2019ll be clear on my stance:\u00a0Anything that suggests the rape of minors is wrong. It goes past negotiating the gray area of different religious traditions. Here are articles that cover the Frosts in more depth: http:\/\/wildhunt.org\/tag\/gavin-and-yvonne-frost http:\/\/robjo.wordpress.com\/2011\/02\/28\/the-frosts-pedophiles-in-our-midst Why Do the Frosts Matter Now? Pagans have protested the Frosts being headline speakers at festivals for years. After the Kenny Klein news hit, the Frosts withdrew\u00a0from presenting at Florida Pagan Gathering and Michigan Pagan Fest. However, Michigan Pagan Fest went ahead and hosted a special weekend with them in mid-August. *The primary coordinator for Michigan Pagan Fest is the person who brought the Frosts to Michigan this August. She clarified that\u00a0MPF itself\u00a0was not responsible for bringing the Frosts in. However, I\u2019ve pointed out that the event was publicized on the MPF Facebook group, and posted by the MPF\u00a0Facebook identity, vs.\u00a0by her as an individual. This implied\u00a0that the organization, Michigan Pagan Fest, had given the Frosts event its backing and support. I posted on my Facebook \u00a0that I was significantly disappointed to see people still hosting the Frosts. Nearly 300 comments and several private conversations later, I observed\u00a0that the Frost supporters continue to make excuses for the Frosts no matter what evidence\u00a0was presented. (Read this excellent post on cognitive dissonance by Jason Morrow.) Anti-Frost Folks Go Overboard Now\u2013complicating the discussion, many folks who are against the Frosts \u00a0overstate the issue, often referring to the Frosts as pedophiles. Pedophiles are only attracted to pre-pubescent children. A hebephile is the term to use for someone attracted to post-pubescent children\/teens. That being said, the Frosts say they haven\u2019t ever done the ritual, and there\u2019s no evidence suggesting they have (ie, no victims). Arguments Frost Supporters Use These are specific to the Frosts case study, but consider\u00a0any leader\/teacher that people make excuses for. \u201cThey wrote that years ago.\u201d They still stand by what they wrote with only vague backpedaling including some fairly defensive blog posts. Check the comments as well\u2013basically, they don\u2019t ever address the actual issue. The two main excuses they seem to offer are: 1. they only included it as historical reference and 2. their use of the word \u201cchild\u201d meant \u201cnon initiate.\u201d I think it\u2019s fine to reference historical ritual\/traditions; why pretend our ancestors didn\u2019t marry girls off at 12 or younger? \u00a0If initiations happened as described in the chapter, or as referenced in the novel\u00a0The Red Tent, then reference it that way. What\u2019s posed in their chapter is a living ritual. They don\u2019t write it as anthropology or history. They write it\u00a0in a \u201cThis is how it should be done\u201d style. \u201cChild\u201d meant \u201cNon-initiate\/spiritual child.\u201d That just doesn\u2019t make sense if you read the chapter. The Frosts outline how parents should assist their barely-pubescent children to prepare for sex. They talk about puberty, and doing the ritual in the month after a girl\u2019s first blood (puberty typically happens between ages 10-15).\u00a0They are talking about the children of members of the coven. \u201cThere are more productive things to worry\u00a0about.\u201d Well\u2026maybe. But, we still have to address this behavior in our community. This is basically just phrase that evades the issue. \u201cYou are violating their civil rights.\u201d\u00a0 Not sure how that follows; speaking up against abuse or writing that promotes abuse is not violating civil rights. \u201cYou are destroying Wicca.\u201d Still not sure how that follows. And\u2013well, if calling out bad behavior destroys a religion, then I can\u2019t say that I feel much remorse in that. \u201cShow me a victim.\u201d I\u2019m not suggesting that the Frosts themselves have actually sexually abused any minors. My issue is the passage that they wrote detailed instructions for raping children in a ritual context. However, if you want a victim, here\u2019s one. I\u2019m sure there are more. \u201cI was personally hurt as an adolescent by the Frosts\u2019 writings, and those that follow said writings like scripture.When I was 14 years old I wound up in my first coven\u2026in central Indiana\u2026.However, the two leaders, the self appointed high priest and priestess were big fans of a book called the Good Witch\u2019s Bible by authors they referred to as \u201cThe Frosts.\u201d \u2026 When I heard that this 30 year old woman thought it was rational and appropriate for us to be sexual in any way at all, I freaked out! \u2026I didn\u2019t associate with other pagans for\u20264 years.\u201d \u2013Mark P., Indiana \u201cIt\u2019s not that bad.\u201d I don\u2019t understand how anyone can read their chapter and not\u00a0read it as an outline for child sexual abuse. \u201cDon\u2019t be intolerant of other traditions and the way they practice.\u201d This is accompanied by an admonishment, \u201cYou wouldn\u2019t want people to tell you how you could practice, would you? Here\u2019s the problem. We\u2019re still talking about non-consensual sex. Rape. We\u2019re talking minors, and fasting and inebriation before the minor has sex with the partner the coven has assigned to them. For that matter,\u00a0what if the child is gay, lesbian, asexual, or transgender? \u201cDon\u2019t throw the baby out with the bathwater.\u201d Or,\u00a0\u201cThey are elders and we should respect them.\u201d Yes, when someone has expertise in an area but they\u2019ve done some bad\/unethical things, shouldn\u2019t we focus on the good and what we can still learn from them?\u00a0On the other hand\u2026what are we valuing and supporting if we do that? What behavior are we continuing too make \u201cok\u201d with\u00a0tacit support? Marion Zimmer Bradley\u2019s a fantastic author. However, were she alive today I would never invite her to speak at any of my events\u2013despite the strides she made for feminism and female authors\u2013because of the transcripts where she admits to aiding her husband in the sexual abuse of minors. Her fiction works will stand the test of time, I think, but that\u2019s different from me inviting her to be a speaker at an event. In fact, in the science fiction and fantasy community, numerous editors and authors have gotten away with sexual harassment for years because nobody had the guts to speak up against them. People now take\u00a0the risk to speak out. It\u2019s not to say that those aren\u2019t great authors\/editors. But if you bring someone in to teach at your event, are you promoting consent culture or rape culture?\u00a0 \u201cNo one is perfect and without flaws, yet we must all remain accountable\u2026to the consequences of our actions\u2026To remain oblivious or silent is to allow the culture of harm behind sexual abuse within \u2018spiritual context\u2019\u2026.at what point does the harm they do outweigh the good? \u2026[S]omeone who has been raped or abused in the name of spiritual obligation\/initiation\/healing would have a much stronger opinion than someone who has never experienced such harm.\u201d \u2013Romany Rivers \u201cYou\u2019re trying to rewrite history.\u201d Stating that rituals like that happened is history. Stating what the Frosts wrote in their book is history. Stating that a ritual like that with minors is unethical and should not be done\u00a0isn\u2019t rewriting history.\u00a0 What else is part of our history, or even current world events? Slavery, racism, misogyny, beating your wife, beating transgender people, discriminating against gay, lesbian, and bisexual people, selling children into sex servitude at a temple, child brides, female\/male circumcision.\u00a0Should we continue those practices just because they are traditional? \u201cYou\u2019re a prude.\u201d Ad hominem. \u201cYou just think initiatory sex is bad.\u201d We\u2019re talking apples and oranges here, but the relevant connection is consent. Here\u2019s a quote from the Frosts displaying\u00a0a complete lack of understanding of consent, rape, or the nature of coercion and grooming: \u201cAny initiatory sex should be with a \u201cstranger\u201d \u2014 an initiated Witch of the coven [that] the neophyte plans to join. . . . The underlying tradition here is sometimes overlooked. If the Craft means enough to you that you are willing to abide by its tenets then abide by them! If you cannot transcend your cultural brainwashing and accept the assignment to have sex one time with an assigned partner, in accordance with centuries of Craft tradition, the Craft can\u2019t mean that much to you. Here\u2019s the door. Don\u2019t call yourself a Witch.\u201d \u2013 Gavin and Yvonne Frost I\u2019m not suggesting that all initiatory sex or sex magic is bad. I agree that the Pagan community has gotten squeamish about sex, but there are reasons for that. In the name of sexual freedom and sexual intiations,I have heard of so many people who have been damaged, manipulated, and abused by the practice of ritual\u00a0sex\u2013even as adults.\u00a0Jason from the Wild Hunt details his experience of emotional and sexual abuse at age 18 through being groomed by an abusive HPS. It\u2019s time to take stock. If we want to use sex in our rituals, we simply have to find a way to do it ethically. For me, ethically\u00a0means enthusiastic consent. \u201cThey\u2019ve never done that ritual.\u201d Either they wrote about a ritual in an instructional format that they deeply believe in but they have never actually practiced. Or, they wrote about a ritual in a how-to format because they had done\u00a0the ritual themselves. The latter is more legally problematic. The former implies hypocrisy. \u201cIt was a different time, different morals.\u201d Add to this prevarications about how the age of consent was different, or that girls started their periods later. Some apologists wrestle with what specific age is legal, and state laws vary. And yes\u2013a teenager doesn\u2019t magically turn into an adult on their 18th birthday. In some states you can still get married at 13\u2026overall I think it\u2019s safe to say that it\u2019s less socially acceptable now than it was 40 years ago to get married under 18, and even 40 years ago, this chapter…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":217,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"iawp_total_views":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10113","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10113","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/217"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10113"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10113\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10113"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=10113"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/paganpages.org\/emagazine\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=10113"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
\n<\/strong>Gavin and Yvonne Frost make an excellent case study on the\u00a0issue of accountability\u00a0. Back in the 1970\u2019s, they published The Witches Bible,<\/em>\u00a0later published as The Good Witches Bible<\/em>. The original version and subsequent versions contains several paragraphs in Chapter 4 which detail a sexual initiation ritual that parents should engage their barely-pubescent children in. A later\u00a0edition clarified that none of the rituals described in the book should be done by anyone under 18, yet the text remained using the word \u201cchild\u201d and\u00a0describing\u00a0physical sexual characteristics of puberty (girls were supposed to have sex with a man who was part of the coven, one month after their period started).\u00a0The chapter describes\u00a0how girls should given one month to prepare for sex with a wooden phallus. To prepare for the ritual, boys and girls are to fast for three days and then be given alcohol.<\/p>\n
\n<\/span><\/strong>*Note: There\u2019s a new edition\u00a0of the book, and I have not read the edited chapter.<\/p>\n\n
\nPagans have protested the Frosts being headline speakers at festivals for years. After the Kenny Klein news hit, the Frosts withdrew\u00a0from presenting at Florida Pagan Gathering and Michigan Pagan Fest. However, Michigan Pagan Fest went ahead and hosted a special weekend with them in mid-August.<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>Now\u2013complicating the discussion, many folks who are against the Frosts \u00a0overstate the issue, often referring to the Frosts as pedophiles. Pedophiles are only attracted to pre-pubescent children. A hebephile is the term to use for someone attracted to post-pubescent children\/teens.<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>These are specific to the Frosts case study, but consider\u00a0any leader\/teacher that people make excuses for.<\/p>\n
\nThey still stand by what they wrote with only vague backpedaling including some fairly defensive blog posts<\/a><\/strong>. Check the comments as well\u2013basically, they don\u2019t ever address the actual issue.<\/p>\n
\nWell\u2026maybe. But, we still have to address this behavior in our community. This is basically just phrase that evades the issue.<\/p>\n
\nNot sure how that follows; speaking up against abuse or writing that promotes abuse is not violating civil rights.<\/p>\n
\nStill not sure how that follows. And\u2013well, if calling out bad behavior destroys a religion, then I can\u2019t say that I feel much remorse in that.<\/p>\n
\nI\u2019m not suggesting that the Frosts themselves have actually sexually abused any minors. My issue is the passage that they wrote detailed instructions for raping children in a ritual context. However, if you want a victim, here\u2019s one. I\u2019m sure there are more.<\/p>\n
\n\u2013Mark P., Indiana<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n
\nI don\u2019t understand how anyone can read their chapter and not\u00a0read it as an outline for child sexual abuse.<\/p>\n
\nThis is accompanied by an admonishment, \u201cYou wouldn\u2019t want people to tell you how you could practice, would you? Here\u2019s the problem. We\u2019re still talking about non-consensual sex. Rape. We\u2019re talking minors, and fasting and inebriation before the minor has sex with the partner the coven has assigned to them.<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>Or,\u00a0\u201cThey are elders and we should respect them.\u201d Yes, when someone has expertise in an area but they\u2019ve done some bad\/unethical things, shouldn\u2019t we focus on the good and what we can still learn from them?\u00a0On the other hand\u2026what are we valuing and supporting if we do that? What behavior are we continuing too make \u201cok\u201d with\u00a0tacit support?<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong><\/p>\n
\n\u2013Romany Rivers<\/span><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n
\n<\/strong>Stating that rituals like that happened is history. Stating what the Frosts wrote in their book is history. Stating that a ritual like that with minors is unethical and should not be done\u00a0isn\u2019t rewriting history.\u00a0<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>Ad hominem.<\/p>\n
\nWe\u2019re talking apples and oranges here, but the relevant connection is consent. Here\u2019s a quote from the Frosts displaying\u00a0a complete lack of understanding of consent, rape, or the nature of coercion and grooming:<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>Either they wrote about a ritual in an instructional format that they deeply believe in but they have never actually practiced.<\/strong><\/em> Or, they wrote about a ritual in a how-to format because they had done\u00a0the ritual themselves. The latter is more legally problematic. The former implies hypocrisy.<\/p>\n
\nAdd to this prevarications about how the age of consent was different, or that girls started their periods later. Some apologists wrestle with what specific age is legal, and state laws vary. And yes\u2013a teenager doesn\u2019t magically turn into an adult on their 18th birthday. In some states you can still get married at 13\u2026overall I think it\u2019s safe to say that it\u2019s less socially acceptable now than it was 40 years ago to get married under 18, and even 40 years ago, this chapter outlining a ritual with inebriated pubescent teens would have been questionable.<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>This is, I think, one of the core fears underlying a lot of the defensiveness from people making excuses for the Frosts. I don\u2019t think people mean to be abuse apologists with it. The fear seems to be that those of us speaking up about abuse will take away the deep sexual initiation mysteries and thus, we\u2019re taking the power and magic out of Wicca\/Paganism.<\/div>\n
\n<\/strong>I\u2019m not advocating keeping children ignorant of sex. It\u2019s important to explain biology, sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy, and yes\u2013some education around pleasure so that masturbation isn\u2019t shameful. I\u2019m an advocate of providing teenagers access to condoms\/other birth control.<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>The Frosts\u2019 chapter 4, and their statements about acquiescing to your HP\/HPS\u2019s orders about who to have sex with, lead me to believe that they do not understand nor support consent culture. Broader cultural shifts have occurred thanks to feminism and other activism that have brought up issues of harassment, slut shaming, rape culture, and consent.\u00a0The conversation around consent has, inherently, changed some perspectives about what\u00a0\u201ccounts\u201d as rape.<\/p>\n
\n<\/strong>I don\u2019t believe the Frosts are evil nor pedophiles. I have serious ethical issues with the chapter they published and their failure to address\u00a0it. Supporting the Frosts is supporting people who have written\u2013and continued to defend\u2013a ritual that outlines a how-to guide for raping a teenage child.<\/p>\n
\n\u2013Phaedra Bonewits<\/span><\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n
\nAny Pagan festival or event organizer is also accountable to the community. When we promote presenters who do not support consent culture, that says, \u201cConsent culture doesn\u2019t matter to me or to my event.\u201d<\/p>\n
\nLet\u2019s look at\u00a0who we make excuses for. Let\u2019s understand predatory and abusive behavior so we can challenge it. Let\u2019s look at consent culture and what we want to build. Let\u2019s look at what it means to be held accountable. I\u2019ve written before on Sex, Ethics and Paganism<\/a>,<\/strong> and there\u2019s Lauren Ouellette-Bruchez\u2019s article on behaviors that predators often engage in.<\/a>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n